i will discuss some recent ongoing work with paul skoufranis to create a non-microstates bi-free entropy. i will propose a definition of bi-free conjugate variables and bi-free fisher information, which admit desirable properties such as additivity in the presence of bi-free independence and versions of cramer-rao and stam inequalities. i will also discuss the analogue of the free difference quotient, and some of the quirks present in the bi-free setting.